Switching Neutrals

I can only tell you my best guess electrically NOT from Bluetti. IF Bluetti is producing two 60 volt legs instead of a 120 volt leg and a neutral that is bonded to earth ( per the NEC) Then anyone bonding their “neutral” which has 60 volts on it would be shorting that leg to ground.
Many power stations are set up as completely floating systems and integrating them with household equipment such as a heating system is not possible. Cord and plug connected equipment (for now) works fine but in the near future all equipment will be looking for that neutral bonded connection ( like new furnace systems). That bonded neutral connection “saves” equipment from faults and protects its users.

i looked at your product EZ Gen Switch but the problem is you only offer single circuit switches. why not a multi circuit switch? most people aren’t gonna go thru the hassle of transferring to sogen powered switch for just 1 circuit. my 2 cents.

I would guess their product was built with gasoline generators in mind for people that used them in emergencies but wanted to run some hardwired appliances.

In my mind it’s the furnace. In North America (I’m keeping in mind a global audience here) we mainly run natural gas furnaces that code says are to be hardwired to the panel via an emergency shut-off switch (which is just a switch).

So you cannot just run an extension cord and a 6 breaker transfer switch needs to be wired at the panel. Their switch could be wired at the furnace shut-off switch and then the homeowner simply runs an extension cord to it in an emergency.

In my case I actually want to run some of my house off solar all of the time.

ha-ha all the more. Sogen products are not big ,long lasting power delivery items. So doing individual circuits actually makes sense. The design intent 12 years ago was giving people the ability to transfer essential circuits without spending a fortune…in todays world transfer approved switch under 100 is a home run. Sales in USA and Canada clearly prove that

dr_torch…correct! 12 years ago no body was using Sogen…its grown which is great. Our product services homes , traffic lights, solar systems and emergency circuits.

For 4 of 5 circuits i instslled a 3p3t switch by breaking the house wire into one input on the switch and jumpered the 2 ouputs to the applience. The other side is the Bluetti input. Total isolation from house for ALL 3 wires. I used 12ga wire from battery to switch. It’s a manual operation

If a licensed electrician did that everyone would complain, homeowner does it and its fine :slight_smile:

The switch is considered as a junction box. Switch rating is 600 volts 42 Amps with total isolation of both inputs and the inspector accepted it after he chacked the wiring. I retired as a Senior Controls/Maintenance Engineer

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Great I was a NEC teacher and I can’t seem to find where a switch would be considered a junction box, because that doesn’t exist. Glad your inspector wasn’t looking for a “label” :slight_smile:

Bluetti will not let you bond their neutral to the house system, if you convert the switch that will bond their neutral so there fore use the switch as received .

This is a similar situation I am having some problems with.
My AC200MAX won’t fire up my Trane furnace. It will start the fans but will not ignite. I think that is because Bluetti batteries are considered to be “Floating Neutral” and for safety reasons my furnace won’t allow that connection.
I’m looking at a simple fix by using a "NEMA 5-15a (125/15A) GROUND NEUTRAL PLUG.
Is this a recommended safe fix.
I am also concerned because the plugs on the MAX are considered 125V/20A is it safe to use the 15A plug .
This is a brief description of the product I am considering to use:
Ground neutral bonding plug for generators with floating neutrals. This will solve a missing ground/neutral problem with EPO/EMS units and generators. By Hughes
Any thought to clarify this would be appreciated.

If you want to do it save and proper you need an isolation transformer
At the transformer output you can bond together PE and N and PE (and a ground rod)

Thanks, That is the problem (Floating Neutral) but my Battery set-up isn’t connected to the main circuit panel.
Right now I have an external single plug outlet mounted on the side of the furnace that is powered from the hydro grid, which I then have a Pigtale plug from the furnace that plugs directly into that outlet, that is how I use the furnace normally. In the event of a power outage, in theory I would then unplug the furnace from that outlet, and then I take the furnace and plug it directly into the AC200Max. (Never could the furnace be connected to both at the same time.)
I can do this now and the furnace powers up and everything works, but it won’t allow the Igniter to start, so no heat.
Part of my concern is that the grounding plug is 125V/5-15A and the AC200Max’s output plug is 125V/20A, is that ok?
My solution was to use this Floating Neutral plug that is inserted into the AC200max, that is supposed to solve the grounding issue. I just want to make sure I don’t fry anything by doing it that way.

I know this has been posted, will mention it again. ALL these companies selling battery/inverter units need to address the NEC issue regarding floating neutrals. You cannot use a neutral bonding plug for the following reason. The NEC clearly states the neutrals shall be bonded at the first means of disconnect ( your main house panel ) A neutral bonding plug bonds the neutral downstream away from the panel. You have created a new path for the unbalance of the load to be bonded elsewhere. In addition, one could argue that it is possible other neutrals returning current, may see that as a path of lesser resistance and return to that location vs the main panel. A nightmare for any electrician and certainly a safety problem.
Bonding elsewhere you need to set up a system ( such as Bluetti or =) as a separately derived system (SDS) This requires a complete grounding grid and nothing close to a bonding plug as they (bluetti) may suggest. The issue remains, will bluetti let you bond their neutral to a new SDS or the main panel?
Floating neutrals are a problem with new equipment. It could be a furnace , gas dryer and microwaves to mention a few. The equipment is looking for the bonding of the neutral, again per the NEC at the main panel .
We taught the NEC for 6 years and unless someone can show us otherwise bonding plugs are illegal in this application.

You would need a approved ground system per Art 250 NEC . In addition any transfer system would have to switch all conductors away from the “other system which it is presently connected to”

I assume you already have a grounding system in your home you can bond to.
Also maybe it is easier for everyone if you uses a view schematics to illustrate?!

Because you seam to assume everyone uses and is familiar with your regional north American Rules and standards.

For all instance and purposes the output of my bluetti eb3a appears like a isolated transformer output.
So i see no problem grounding one side and giving me effectively what is a TN-S system:

or you can not connect the PE from your blue and get effectively a TT system

You could even uses it as IT system and leaf the bluetti output floating

you seem quiet knowledgeable about this. could you please have a look at the new thread I posted today? your feedback would be appreciated. many thanks

Well, one thing I understand is, don’t use the Ground Neutral Plug. It is a little bit of a bummer as I wanted to be able to use the furnace in the event of a power outage.
Everything else I have connected for an emergency works fine.
I’m not an electrician and I don’t trust myself, but I do know an electrician, and he has mentioned to me, he has installed a couple Bluetti systems, so it’s time to pay the piper.
Thanks

just connect Ground and Neutral and it will be fine.
But make sure they are connected at only one place.

“usually” they are connected in the distribution box anyways. if you want to wire your generator to the distribution box they are already connected there

You’re going to have another problem with your Fridge. As I found out with mine, the compressor started running non-stop, 24/7. It had stopped cycling on/off. It was youtube to the rescue.
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ALL refrigerator cooling coils collect fine dust, layer upon layer, insulating the coils and making the compressor work harder and harder until it eventually fails prematurely.
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This was new info to me, as well as many others. Cleaning out the dust should be done annually. It’s not terribly difficult to do, but you do have to access the lower back panel and start vacuuming. You may need various small brushes to get into tight spaces as the dust doesn’t always come loose easily.
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My fridge was 12 years old when I had to do this, so it was a lot of buildup. Of course, a serviceman will be happy to take your money to do it.
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One video was similar to yours with the island and cabinets. The builders were supposed to leave enough room to pull the fridge forward and then sideways to remove it. The Fridge doors can be removed (they had to on mine to get it through the doorway), as well as any cabinet doors/handles.
Eventually the day will come when it has to come out. Maybe call some carpenters to figure it out.