I’ve noted some of this in other posts, but I did some testing with one of my AC70s and the Elite 100 V2.
As previously noted, my largest power station is the AC200P, it and the AC70, AC180 and Elite 100 have no expansion battery capability, other than using something like the B80 in power bank mode. This limits the charge rate to 200W.
What I have done is a “hack” or, in more engineering terms, improvisation. This will work with any reasonable sized LiFePO4 deep cycle battery. A further reason for this was to establish amps loads at the input of the Charger
Details next post, however, at this point I will state, “I am not anti expansion batteries. They are a great addition to those power stations, they are designed to interface with.”
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The items I used for this test;
- AC70 - Elite 100 v2 - Charger 1 - Pylontech 100Ah LFP battery - OEM cables - Home made adaptor cables - Powertech DC power meter (100A).
The Pic below shows the 100Ah battery, a short cable, ring terminals to battery to Anderson plug. Into this another short cable, Anderson to Soldered bare wire to suit the Charger 1 input. The power meter was plugged between these cables to monitor input to Charger 1. The cable to battery has an inline 60A fuse.
The next pic shows the OEM solar input cable for the AC70 connected to the AC70 DCinput. The other end connects to the Charger 1 output via MC4 connectors.
The AC70 was at 62% SOC start of test and charged from the 100Ah battery via Charger 1 until 100% in Standard mode. I did not see the AC70 display exceed 446W input. The pic below shows the current from the battery when set to Silent mode charging, which was a brief reset during charging.
More next post.
Once the AC70 reached 100% SOC, I connected the Elite 100 in the AC70s place, using its Solar charging cable. (It is of a heavier gauge than the AC70 cable)
The Elite 100 was at 75% SOC at the start of test and the power meter was not reset.
This pic shows its current draw at Silent or Standard charge rates.
The final pic shows the Ah used to charge both the AC70 and Elite 100 to 100% SOC from the noted start SOC of each.
I will note;
- The calculated total Wh to recharge both power stations was 546Wh based on the SOC displayed on the screen of each, as against the specifications of each. This is not absolute as there is likely a calibration required.
- The total the battery provided was 32.59Ah @ 13.12V = 427Wh. This confirms a probable capacity reset is needed.
Of note - When the Charger 1 is set to maximum output, it draws 50A from the alternator when vehicle mounted. (I noted an input to the Elite 100 of 554W on its display,) With the Charger 1 set to 56V maximum output, but the AC70 set to Silent mode at <300W, which limits input to it, the load was 22A from the battery.
Conclusions -
- Regardless of the Elite 100s charging mode, if the Charger 1s output voltage is reduced to approx 34V, it will reduce the charge rate to around 300W. In effect a similar Silent rate to the AC70 and other models.
- Using a 100Ah LFP to power the Charger 1 will give, approximately, the following charge cycles from empty to 100%;
AC70 = 1.7 times or a total of 2,062 Wh
AC180 = 1.27 times or a total of 2,452 Wh
Elite 100 V2 = 1.13 times 2,324 Wh (These are total Wh of each power station plus recharge from the 100Ah LFP.)
Plus in Standard mode charge using Charger 1, all 3 power stations = or < than 2 hours charge time.
As mentioned in other posts, I already provide additional power from the alternator - A 25A DC-DC charging the caravan batteries, A 20A charger to the 4x4 Auxiliary battery and as needed caravan anti-sway. My reason for not hard wiring to the 4x4.
Keeping the Charger 1 portable, allows me to use it anywhere, 4x4, RV, workshop, driveway or as pictured, my lounge room floor. I can, when camped, connect it to the 4x4 start battery. Would I? No, because idling a diesel engine for an hour or two is not good for it.
Finally, for those that might wonder; How do I charge the 100Ah LFP;
- At home, from the grid via a Victron 15A smart charger. Done when my roof top solar is in excess.
- When out and about, I have a Victron 75/15 Solar controller it can be charged from and as a last resort an 800W petrol generator via the 15A Victron.
- In the event of grid outage, I also have a 2kVA Honda to use at home, but at a time the neighbours won’t complain, lol.
Charger 1 costs as much as the 100v2 did! For charging from LFP it seems better to use a 24V or 48V LFP pack. For fast charging from alternator, you might just use a bigger inverter than your 375VA Victron. You mentioned in another post that the 100v2 is fussy about input waveform. That seems unfortunate since the charger is almost certainly an SMPS. It would be nice to be able to charge from modified sine wave in a situation like this.
Charger 1 is a nice product but much too expensive for such a special purpose gadget I think. You mentioned elsewhere that it should be possible to set the 100v2 input power (say to 300 watts) and this is another place where that would be nice, to charge with your Victron. But bigger Victrons are available, and there are other brands that are much less expensive.
@paulr That’s not exactly correct. I bought the Charger 1 in a package with an AC70, when on special. It cost around $200 AUD more than the AC70 alone. I bought the Pylontech around 6 years ago for around $900 AUD.
Further, if you read the post, I don’t have the alternator capacity to run the Charger 1 or the capacity from my 20A charged Auxiliary battery to run a bigger than 375W inverter as well as the 12Vfridge.
I also never stated the Elite 100 was fussy about Waveform. What I did say was that when I initially tested the Charging, it failed from other power stations and petrol generators. This matter was raised with Bluetti, who pushed a DSP firmware update which resolved that issue. I’ll highlight that the Elite I have was a pre production model and during testing due to issues I found, which were reported to Bluetti, were subsequently fixed with further updates. That is the point of testing pre production devices.
Also, a 24V or 48V LFP pack would cost considerably more than the Charger 1 and one heck of a solar array to Charge off grid.
FYI The current prices in AUD - Elite 100 v2 $1,199 - Charger 1 $499 Not what I call the “same price.”
A Renogy 12V x 100Ah LFP = $630 to get 24V = 2 of them @ $1,260 and 48V double that, so your math does not add up. Also, considerably more expensive and less charge rate than the Charger 1’s 56V output.
Yes there are cheaper options, but in general terms, I’m a believer in “You get what you pay for”. In remote parts of Australia, system failure can mean serious issues, most people don’t want…
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Hi, at least in the US, the Charger 1 is US$399 list and is offered for that amount on the Ebay and Amazon Bluetti stores, though it’s $299 on the Bluetti site ($100 off, I don’t know how long that will last). The 100v2 at US launch was US$399, same as the retail price of the Charger 1. Right now the 100v2 is shown at $469. I actually got my 100v2 for US$379 using a 5% discount code. The .AU situation is apparently different so the Charger 1 is more attractive.
You’re right, I couldn’t find a post from you about the 100v2 being fussy about waveform. I did see a post like that somewhere but it must have been by someone else. I apologise for the confusion. Good point also about not having the spare alternator capacity for a larger inverter. I had forgotten about that.
From what I can tell, Renogy batteries aren’t anything special. They’re just overpriced. So I’d either use a less expensive battery or look for something certified for on-grid use. In the US that is UL 9840A listing but I don’t know about Oz. I know there’s an EG4 48V 100AH battery that is UL listed and is around US$ 1300, while a non-listed Eco-worthy battery of similar size is US$ 800, so that gives a range to look for in $/WH. Also, the Bluetti B300K (2764WH) is US$1250 (I think I’ve seen it on sale for a lot less) and the B80 (804WH) is 499 USD. Again these are unattractive (at least here) compared to just buying more power stations.
As far as getting what you pay for, the Bluetti stuff is attractive and convenient, but I wouldn’t call it nearly as robust (or nearly as expensive or heavy) as doing a similar system with Victron gear! I wouldn’t critically rely on any device like this to keep working through all conditions. Fortunately you have your generator as a backup.
It does sound like you did better with your Charger 1 / AC70 combo. I wonder what other alternatives exist.
I agree with you that the simplest and most appropriate fix would be a firmware change to let the 100v2 charge with 300 watts of AC input so you could charge from your Victron as you have been doing in the past.
Added: interestingly, Victron also makes a 12V to 48V boost converter, slightly lower powered thant the Charger 1, but less expensive, at least here: https://shopcaddis.com/products/victron-orion-tr-12-48-8a-380w-isolated-dc-dc-converter
I’m well across the comparison of AUD to USD currency. Here’s the difference re the Charger 1;
US$399 list price based on current exchange rate of $1 AUD = $0.65 USD or the other way around $1 USD = $1.55 AUD - $399 USD = $618.45 AUD. Charger 1 is currently (at list price, no discount) $599 AUD. This means it is actually $19.45 AUD ($12.56 USD) cheaper here, than in the States.
I don’t always convert currency or units of measurement from metric to imperial in my posts. I do try to include the terms AUD and or mm, kg etc. It is then up to the reader to convert that data to their units for comparison.
Comparing the figure only, is like comparing Apples and Oranges. The same applies to comparing Bluetti power stations to Victron equipment as Victron do not make all in one power stations. Their equipment is modular, requiring selection of items then wiring them together.
@paulr - Thank you for your response, it’s not often I’m quoted for something I didn’t say and I appreciate your retraction.
On the matter of whatever combination of charging batteries is; There are infinite ways to do this, most are ok, some not so good and a huge price differential in the chosen method. If it works for YOU (and I use the term YOU to refer to anyone) and YOU are happy with the outcome, it does not mean someone else being different, is wrong.
Final point, I’m a big advocate for Victron equipment, it’s great quality and mostly fit for purpose. Why do I say mostly? There are some DC-DC items Victron make that do not do so well here in Aust. Mainly those that are heatsink cooled, not fan cooled. In summer here it gets to 45C, (113F) especially in the remote areas and for many days at a time. Even here in the city, I’ve recorded 58C (over 136C) in my vehicle and in nearer the equator that can be up to 50C (122F) ambient and 65C (149F) in a car.
So, apart from form, fit and function, along with cost, environment is a further consideration many overlook.
These temperatures are well over Victron and Bluetti operating limits, including batteries.
As an aside - Victron is a Dutch company. Their products are likely designed for that environment. If it gets to 30C in Europe, it’s the start of a heatwave, in the upper 30sC it’s sweltering heat. Here in Australia, that’s just a normal summer’s day, lol…
Of course I understand the difference between US$ and AU$. But, in .AU per your numbers, the 100v2 costs 2.4x what the Charger 1 costs, regardless of the currency unit. In the US, it’s 1.56x right now and was 1.33x or maybe even 1.00x at the beginning of July. So that made Charger 1 less attractive by comparison. Consider that it’s purely a software limitation that the 100v2 can’t charge at 240W from 12V DC input, or at 300W from AC input (the Victron 12/375 is around US$ 100 here).
That is an interesting point about the Victron DC-DC not being so great at high temperatures, due to having only passive cooling. It does look to me like the 12/375 inverter has a cooling fan. I see someone made a 3D printed fan mount for the Orion charger (Low profile cooling fan mount (3D-printed) for Orion DC - DC chargers - VictronEnergy) but that’s something users shouldn’t have to do.
I guess one needs to look at specifications as well. A good example, the Redarc DC-DC charger is Rated to 80C, whereas the Victron Orion is rated to 55C and derates at over 40C. The Redarc does derate, but I could not find at what temp or by how much, but it still has a 25C higher rating and will work just about anywhere.
The one thing I like about the Charger 1 is its ability to vary output voltage, not only to suit multiple uses, but also limit input load from the source. Voltage converters might be cheaper, but they are fixed output voltage at a set amperage, which means no adjustment at either end.
The one big Q I have not answered. Would I buy the Elite 100 v2 and or the Charger 1?
There are several answers;
- Elite 100 - If I owned no power stations - YES.
- Elite 100 - As I already have 1 x AC200P, 3 x AC180s and 2 x AC70s - NO as what I have, is enough. (Noted in my testing, I was provided the Elite 100 to test and subsequently keep) It will replace one of my AC180s when off grid camping, as it’s smaller and lighter.
- Charger 1 - As I have a spare 100Ah LFP, and have bought the Charger 1 to run off it - YES.
- Charger 1 - Without the spare LFP and knowing I do not have spare alternator capacity - Probably NO, unless I was prepared to buy such a spare LFP as well.
- Charger 1 - There are times, I can connect the Charger 1 to my vehicle. - When not connected to my Caravan, the Charging load to it is not present, nor the Anti Sway device. If my Auxiliary battery is full, it also is not charging, which means I can tap power from the rear of my 4x4 to run the Charger 1 albeit at a reduced voltage. The connection only has a 40A fuse, so around 35V not 56V. Some charge is better than no charge.
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