So every in every YouTube video I’ve seen about the Charger 1 the comments are flooded with people giving dire warnings about the “incorrect” placement of the circuit breaker which they say should be as close to the battery as possible and that having it instead further away and inside the vehicle is highly dangerous because if the line overheats, it could start a fire. Is this an actual concern and error in the design as so many people are claiming?
Another question is I have an 28 year old van with a 90 amp alternator. Will that be sufficient to power the Charger 1 without killing my alternator? No other accessories are hooked up to the battery but I’m still concerned. What are the optimal settings for an old vehicle like this?
A circuit breaker (CCTBRKR) or fuse should be as close to the source as possible, as it protects the cable run should it be damaged.
The CCTBRKR supplied with the Bluetti cable is, in my opinion, a convenient Isolator placed close to the Charger 1 to switch source power on and off. It is not placed, in my opinion in the correct location to protect the cable from it to the start battery.
For correct wiring a Midi Fuse of 60A should be placed as close to the Start battery as possible to correctly wire the harness. (This includes using cabling other than the Bluetti supplied OEM harness)
Bluetti’s failing here, in my opinion, is that this is not noted in the Charger 1 user manual, it should be and in “BLOCK CAPITAL BOLD TEXT”
I am qualified and experienced enough to know this, many that use the Charger 1 are not.
More…
Re alternator load - I have a 4x4 with a 130 or 150A alternator. (Not sure which as there are variant differences.)
It is more than enough to run the Charger 1 at full load.
However, I also tow a caravan with a 25A DC-DC charger. There is also an auxiliary battery in the rear with a 20A DC-DC charger, plus a caravan anti sway connection also requiring power. This reduces my available load, such that the Charger 1 at full load will overload the alternator.
My Charger 1 is not permanently installed, but can be used on vehicle. I turn output voltage down to around 35-40V to lower the load on the alternator and usually when not connected to the caravan. At this voltage, it will still charge my power stations, albeit a little slower at around 350-400W.
I also use the Charger 1, powered from a spare 100Ah LFP in my caravan for increased capacity input to my Elite 100, AC180 or AC70s.
As the C1 is not installed and the cable (OEM Bluetti) is rolled out as required in a static environment, I have not added the midi fuse when 4x4 connected, but I know what I’m doing lol. When using the 100Ah LFP, I made up a short heavy cable and this is Midi Fused.
But we can’t change the placement of the breaker from where it is, right? Does that mean that everyone who has the Charger 1 installed has a potentially dangerous situation in their vehicle?
@BLUETTI_CARE@chrisjs - To answer your 2 Qs - Yes & Yes, in my opinion. To detail each…
Changing placement - You could do this, but I advise against it; If you re-terminate ring terminals at the CCTBRKR end of the cable and cut the ones off at the other to replicate screw down, this will work. However, the inline CCTBRKR is not IP rated, it is meant for in cabin use, not under bonnet. In the elements it may/will eventually fail. This is also not specified as a Warning in the user manual.
As an aside - Although it looks like a standard VAC CCTBRKR, it is as per the writing on it a DC type. They are not interchangeable as DC breakers are “cushioned” due to the high arcing of DC current.
In my opinion - Yes, potentially dangerous if those that install to a vehicle without further Fuse protection near the start battery. Running any power cable from the front start battery, through the engine bay, through the fire wall, under door trims and into the rear without fusing is dangerous. In the event of an accident i.e. a side impact on the side of the cable run, could damage the cables to the extent of a full short circuit event. This would likely generate enough heat to cause a catastrophic fire where driver/passengers may be trapped.
CAN I install the C1 cable without a fuse for it to work - YES.
WOULD I do this, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
The small cable I made up to use the Charger 1 from my 100Ah LFP has a midi fuse inline. I used 8AWG cable as against the 6AWG Bluetti OEM. An inline midi fuse will fit 8AWG, I’m not sure if 6AWG will, so a maxi fuse may be required. The reasons I went 8AWG - First, I had it in my stock of cable and second, the cable will handle the amps load and it is only 40cm (16") long, so voltage drop is not an issue.
It is not a huge issue to use the OEM cable - if you cut the positive cable around 12-15" from the ring terminal and crimp a suitable H/D terminal on each cut end to suit a fuse holder’s terminal, you reuse the whole cable.
As mentioned, I along with any auto electrician, would know the above. Users that do not know, should, in my opinion, at least be warned in the Bluetti User Manual, of the requirement for fusing at the source end of the cable, as I mentioned in my earlier post.
Another point to note - Bluetti is designed and manufactured, I believe, in China. Different countries, have different regulations and not all are equal.
Although I have previously raised this with Bluetti, I have tagged this reply to Bluetti Care for their attention.
Thanks for the info. Sounds rather complicated. I was hoping to hear from an official Bluetti person assuring us that everything is safe installing it the normal way. Anyone?
Hi @chrisjs, Thank you for your attention to this matter.
It is best to install the circuit breaker at the rear end, aiming for safety and ease of operation. If customers want to enhance safety, they can also add an independent fuse specifically for car batteries at the front end.
Thanks to @Mandp for the detailed and professional explanation.
Additionally, please note that it is recommended to choose a 50A alternator instead of a 90A one; otherwise, when the user turns on the air conditioner, insufficient power will cause constant restarts.
We highly respect users’ opinions and their requirements for more advanced, more compatible, and safer products. We will add a fuse to the next-generation Charger 1 and incorporate various new functions, so stay tuned.
@BLUETTI_CARE In your second para you noted 50A alternator, should this read 150A?
(As an aside, can you tell me how you get your posts to space paragraphs, please? I’ve tried using the Enter key and is still bunches the text together. Thanks)
Hi @Mandp, Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Our previous description was not accurate enough, so we would like to clarify here. We recommend that the generator current be 100A or higher, while the fuse should be 63A or higher. We hope this is helpful.
Regarding the spaces used in the reply, you need to add a space character before this paragraph. We have attached a screenshot for reference.
@BLUETTI_CARE Thank you for the advice re paragraphs.
Re your fusing, I understand this is to protect the wiring, more than anything else. FYI, I did some static testing on my AC70, AC180 & Elite 100 from a nominal 13V LFP using the Charger 1.
The highest load charge was the Elite 100, its draw was recorded at 558 on the input using my power meter and the Elite 100’s display showed an input of 494W. (The Elite 100 was at 50%SOC in Standard mode charging, Charger 1 was set to 56V output) The actual load on the input cable of the Charger 1 was 43.3Amps.
I would expect a slightly higher output when connected to an alternator as the voltage can be slightly higher, particularly, a medium to large diesel engine.
The 35cm cable I used between the LFP battery and Charger 1 has a 50A inline midi fuse, just in case. It did not blow or get warm as the max load was the 43.3 recorded current.
Hi @Mandp, You’re welcome—we’re more than happy to answer your questions.
Yes, installing a fuse will indeed make things safer.
Thank you for sharing your detailed test records. We think your Charger 1 is performing well. Are you satisfied with it? Please feel free to share your opinions and suggestions.
@BLUETTI_CARE Yes I am satisfied with it. The Charger 1 does what it is meant to do, increasing output charge from a nominal 12VDC source. Not permanently installing it and using a 100Ah LFP to power C1, is not strictly its intended use, but, it works for me and I do know what I am doing, lol.
OBSERVATION
From what I see online, both on this Forum and other sources, there seems to be a degree of confusion, particularly those with limited electrical knowledge. There are many that believe it will charge a standalone LFP battery, which is not the case, as I believe you would agree.
For years now, a DC-DC charger has been interpreted as taking 12V vehicle sourced input power, converting it to a charging profile for a secondary deep cycle battery. Initially, GEL, AGM and lately LFP, all of which have different charging requirements (algorithms) i.e. multi stage - Boost, Absorption & Float.
The Charger 1 does not do this, as I have mentioned on the Forum, it in fact takes a 12VDC source and converts it to a higher voltage, acceptable by the internal chargers of power stations. It is therefore more of a variable voltage power supply for power stations, with a controlled current output, in my opinion.
My considered opinion, is that, the User Manual should reflect this as a warning to users that “pumping” 56V into a standalone deep cycle battery, will likely cause it to go “BANG”. I have read the manual, it does warn against inpropper use etc. But, I believe it should have a warning, to avoid confusion on page 1 i.e.
“CHARGER 1 IS NOT INTENDED TO CHARGE STANDALONE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES. APPLYING UP TO 56V TO ANY STANDALONE 12V BATTERY IS CATASTROPHICALLY DANGEROUS.”
Or words to that effect…
(Noted as constructive opinion/advice)
Hi @Mandp, Thank you for your detailed and professional suggestions.
Many users are very satisfied with Charger 1, and this is because Charger 1 has significantly increased the car charging power while only utilizing the redundant electricity generated when the car is started.
At the same time, we are also developing the next-generation product, which will be more compatible, efficient, and multi-functional to better meet user needs.
We have indeed mentioned these precautions in the user manual; however, it is possible that the information is not prominent enough. We have already fed back this issue to our technical team, and they will consider optimizing the layout or highlighting the content in future versions of the manual.
Hi @chrisjs, your generator is indeed a bit small, and we’re not certain if it can be compatible.
If you’ve already purchased Charger 1, you can first set it to 27V and then test whether it can charge the device. We hope this helps.
Hi @chrisjs, We think the 90A inverter may be a bit undersized for your setup, but you can still give it a try.
You can also test the 36V and 27V configurations separately.
We hope everything goes smoothly from here!
Please don’t hesitate to contact us if you need our assistance.
