Hi @ftrueck, Thank you for your feedback. When the power station is connected to the grid, it will inevitably draw a small amount of electricity from the grid, which is unavoidable and something we cannot resolve.
Regarding the issue of unresponsive buttons, could you please try to reproduce the problem, record a video of it, upload the video to a cloud storage service, and then share the link with us? We would like to conduct a further analysis of this matter.
Thanks for the reply. Regarding the unresponsive buttons: The problem is I can not reproduce it. When it happens, the situation is there. If I could reproduce it easily you would already know unfortunately.
Regarding the power draw: I know that it is technically necessary. But I have a drain of 90W which is a bit high for just tracking the grid. Having said that: I know there is a relay on the grid side. I can hear it, when I restore grid power to the unit. I can see in the app that before the relay clicks, the power, voltage and amps in the grid info page are all zero. After the relay click they refresh and show actual values. So in theory there is a way to disconnect the unit from grid physically through the relay. That is what I was referring to. The idea is simple: When the time schedule says discharge, then disconnect the unit from grid via the existing relay on the grid side of the unit. If the schedule says charge: reconnect via relay. The only requirement would be that the relay can be controlled via firmware, which I hope. Then this would be possible. Additionally a setting to control this behavior and all is fine.
Hi @ftrueck, It seems that the issue of unresponsive buttons is an occasional problem, which was just a temporary freeze. Now this problem has been resolved.
Regarding the relay issue, you’re right. When the current is quite low, say 0.1/0.2A, the relay is disconnected, and it will still show 0W. A certain degree of self-consumption is unavoidable, and it does exist in the AC200L. Currently, we cannot solve this through firmware updates.
If you agree, we can also replace a unit for you. Although we don’t think replacing one will solve all problems, you can test with another unit. Please contact us via private message and provide the order information so that we can arrange it for you.
I think i figured out what the problem is. The AC inverter in all AC200L units is not working the way I was hoping. It can not handle capacitive loads correctly.
Here is how i figured it out:
- I went to my older AC200L unit that I have bought 3 years ago.
- I connected my laptop with its power supply (switch mode as this is common today) to the AC200L.
- I had set the unit to PV priority mode.
- I turned on AC on the AC200L and watched my power monitor
Here is what happened:
- Any power draw below 80W was passed through 1:1 to the grid.
- Power factor on the laptop power supply was between 0.8 and 0.99 (variations happened)
- Power factor on the grid side was between 0.1 and 0.2
- Watt draw was the same on both sides
- I then connected an air de-humidifier (compressor, so ohms load).
- The power draw on the load side of the AC200L was now 380W but with a power factor of 1.0 (laptop still was connected)
- Grid side of AC200L immediately dropped to 8W power draw
- Power factor at grid side dropped to 0.1 which I deem as normal operation and what I wanted to see
So as a conclution:
- Power factor on load side matters
- Load type on load side matters
- normal grid behavior only happens with inductive or ohms loads
I then went to my AC200L unit in the office and did more checks.
I thought: Ok, maybe it needs more load for the inverter to work correctly, so i also connected my PC to the Load side of my AC200L.
Here is what happened:
- Power draw on load side was 380W
- Power factor on load side was approx 0.8
- Grid side shows now 110W draw instead of 85W
- Power factor remains at 0.2 on grid side
- I then disconnected my PC as it only made the problem worse
- Then I added the same air de-humidifier (compressor)
- Power draw on load side of AC200L now was also 380W
- Power factor on load side now was 1.0
- Grid power draw fell to 7W
- Grid power factor was 0.1
- Then i removed the de-humidifier and connected a normal fan
- Power draw was now 195W
- Power factor was 0.85 - 0.9
- Grid power draw was 85W in comparison to 94W without fan
Conclusions:
- Same behavior on the newer unit and the older unit
- power factor on load side affects Grid side
- The worse the power factor of the Load side, the higher the power draw on the grid side
- inductive loads and ohms loads smaller than the capacitive loads do not compensate enough
- only when the inductive / ohms load is equal or above the capacitive load you have a reduction in grid power draw
So this looks like the inverter of the AC200L can not compensate the power factor of loads connected to it. In standalone mode (isolated from grid) this is no issue. As soon as you have grid connection the power draw is significant and leaves a hole in the electricity bill. The higher the load and the worse the power factor of the load, the higher the power draw on the grid side. As I tested on 2 x AC200L units that are in different age and they show exactly the same behavior it must be the inverter and as far as I can see this is not fixable in any way other than replacing the inverter in the AC200L with a better version that can handle mixed or pure capacitive loads better.
I think with my testing procedure bluetti should be able to reproduce the issue and confirm that the inverter is the issue.
Thank you to Bluetti for engaging with this post, and thank you to ftrueck for providing a simple test procedure.
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Offsetting my PC running costs was one of the main reasons for my recent Bluetti purchases - the AC200L and Elite 200 V2 - so this topic is of great interest to me.
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Some quick tests:
The PC setup draws about 180W at desktop, Power factor of around 0.77.
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AC200l, 90% charge, PV priority mode (150w incoming), AC Eco mode off.
- Reports about 230W AC output, and I measure about 45W- 50W draw from the grid. (Of note, the fan was running for the full test.)
Elite 200 V2, 98% charge, PV priority mode (150w incoming), AC Eco mode off.
- Reports about 240W AC output, and I measure about 45W-50W draw from the grid while the app shows 0W (Power factor 0.15). (Of note, the fan was not running for the full test.)
So, good news, the Elite 2200 V2 is no worse than the 220L!
More seriously, I confirm ftrueck’s findings and find the Elite 200 V2 shows the same behaviour.
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So, what does this mean to me, someone who knows little about all this power stuff?
Correct me if I’m wrong but what I see is the PC setup draws 180W, the Bluetti delivers (discharges @220W) and is drawing an additional 50W from the mains. For 180W useful power, I’m using 220 + 50 = 270W of power that will need to come from PV + grid? -
For the AC200L I could use a smart socket driven by Home Assistant to reduce the grid draw. Note: reduce and not cancel out as I’m certain there will be times I need grid + PV. Also, I’ll need to do something about the fan noise.
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For the Elite 200 V2 the Home Assistance option is currently unknown, as I’ve been unable to connect to the V2.
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The Home Assistant connection may not be 100% reliable, especially when disconnected from the grid. I’m investigating (something to do with sleep modes?).
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Do I have this right? The Energy company charges for actual power; it does not charge for apparent power (actual power = apparent power * power factor). The solar battery (generator) is providing apparent power which when topped up from the grid is charged as actual power?
Looks like I need to adjust my offsetting calculations! :(
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Thank you for confirming my tests so far.
In my case I just came up with the idea to test what happens when I allow the unit to charge while AC is on and I found another interesting behavior:
- Bluetti app shows roughly 700W grid draw
- While my power socket shows about 600W grid draw,
If I do a little Math: (698 + 81) - 153 = 626. That would come close to the real power draw but still a difference of 26W. The app shows the numbers in a very weird way anyways.
@ ftrueck you’re welcome 
Did you just find 100W, if so this is the first good news I’ve heard today!
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On communication with the Bluettis, of course, I would like everything reliably available at all times. Not possible for various reasons, but here’s an idea for BLUETTI_CARE -
If the device is discharging and/or charging, then every time period it broadcasts an information packet.
- Time Period: about every minute would be (more than?) enough, and time accuracy is not important.
- Broadcast: I’m thinking a UDP broadcast packet. The downside of UDP is that it is not guaranteed to be received. The upsides are: UDP broadcasts are limited to the local network subnet; no open network ports. And yes, I prefer network over Bluetooth but I’m open to persuasion.
- Information: Unique device identifier, some sort of sequence number (perhaps?), all the data - though I think battery charge% would be a very good start (if % < 20 then enable smart plug regardless of time of day, and PV priority will do the rest).
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For that it would be cool if bluetti would open and document their api that they use for their app. Even if it would be read only. All this info is already transferred to them and there would be the perfect place to get the infos. But i guess they will not do that because of extra traffic and potential risks. Fully opening the bluetooth access would be my preferred way.
I could imagine a little bluetooth device connected to one of the usb ports of the powerstation transmitting the infos into the wifi. Actually for the moment a RPI with bluetti_bt would probably do exactly that.
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Hi @ftrueck
Thanks for your work on github btw.
Bluetti will publish a official Homeassistant integration on newer products (hope on older units too)
Dont have any details like how much information we can get out of the official plugin, but its a good begining.
Erik
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Hi @ftrueck, Regarding this question, please note that the AC200L records apparent power, which includes active power and reactive power. Therefore, the value displayed will be higher than that recorded by your electricity meter. This is normal.
Thank you to @ecat and @Selfmadestrom for their explanations and analyses—they are very valuable!
Official HA integration would be fantastic, assuming high reliability, WiFi (better yet, wired. I can dream ;) ), local connection.
On Bluetooth, my first reaction is always, short range, unreliable, requires some app and a smartphone. Apps go out of date and I hate smartphones!
And @BLUETTI_CARE thank you for your feedback too.
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I see.
Though the info is not the same.
I guess this is because of the dummy load that the AC200L has to apply to measure the grid.
Hi @ecat, Thank you for sharing your valuable opinions.
We have indeed received a lot of feedback from users mentioning that Bluetooth connection is inconvenient.
Therefore, we have incorporated more built-in WiFi connection functions in our new models, which are more user-friendly.
Hi @ftrueck, I appreciate your interest in BLUETTI.
This is the operating logic we set from the initial design stage, and it is also reflected in most models of our power stations.
@BLUETTI_CARE Hello! So, to sum it up:
- We do have parasitic drain from AC when we should not (because we specifically use UPS Timed mode to not drain AC power at hours when it costs more). The amount is different for different battery drain consumers, but it is always > 0.
- Can this be fixed/prevented/changed in any way by firmware update, or is it 100% hardware design?
- If not possible, I add my voice to requests to add WiFi API control possibility, to turn off smart power plug for AC input from Home Assistance by time of the day.
For me, only WiFi will work, because I don’t have separate server, like most of the people, but everyone has phone and router, both are running 24/7, both can use WiFi connection and scripts/apps for automation.
P.S. I have a 200PL, not an 200L, but I suppose it’s the same in that regard.
Thank you.
Hi @snmya, Thank you very much for your valuable feedback. At the moment, we don’t have new firmware available to reduce power consumption, we’ve already passed this suggestion on to the app team for further discussion. However, we believe this is an unavoidable objective behavior and not a hardware issue.
If you’d like to request API control access, please message us directly and provide your email address, as we’ll need to send the documentation via email after granting access.
I could narrow down the bluetooth problem.
It seems to be related to PV input and reconnection of bluetooth multiple times in a short amount of time.
The unit gets stuck in the following way:
- Bluetooth connection does not work anymore
- Bluetooth icon is not showing in display
- Bluetooth icon is on in settings screen
- Power button does not react
- AC, USB and DC button still work
Now the interesting part:
- If I only disconnect PV input the unit becomes sort of responsive again.
- Bluetooth connection does still not work.
- Power button works now
So I can power down the unit then and start it again, then it works normally again.